Unitymedia Providerbox 6490 Einstellungen ändern

[tq1199]

Re: Providerbox 6490 manipulieren

<r><QUOTE author="Gizeh775" post_id="374606" time="1496651842" user_id="33798"><s>

</s>
Der DHCP hat einen Pool aus IPs und weiß welche MAC die bekommen dürfen?
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

Ja bei _festen_ IP-Adressen, ... das weiß der DHCP und nicht nur der DHCP, denn es werden öffentliche IPv4-Adressen für den Bridge-Anschluss auch ohne DHCP (d. h. statisch und schriftlich) seitens UM zugewiesen.<br/>
<br/>
Aber das mit der MAC-Adresse ist eh nur pro forma, denn die MAC-Adresse kann gespooft werden, wenn man ein anderes Gerät anschließen muss/will.</r>

 

[johnripper]

Re: Providerbox 6490 manipulieren

<r><QUOTE author="Andreas1969" post_id="374594" time="1496650979" user_id="31771"><s>

</s>
<QUOTE author="johnripper" post_id="374587" time="1496647715" user_id="28450"><s>

</s>
Komisch. Früher haben die Moderatoren Beiträge die auf Verstöße der AGBs von UM oder der Beschädigung von fremden Eigentum gezielt haben immer relativ zügig gesperrt. Heutzutage wird mitdiskutiert.
<e>

</e></QUOTE>
Das ist doch Quatsch und Beschädigung oder Verstößen gegen die AGBS nichts zu tun. Ich möchte mir damit keine zusätzlichen Leistungen erschleichen, sondern lediglich von meinem Recht der Routerfreiheit Gebrauch machen. <E>:winken:</E>
<e>

</e></QUOTE>
1. Bitte lese die AGBs von UM, z.B.:
<QUOTE><s>

</s>4.2 Für die Nutzung eines vom Kabelnetzbetreiber zur Verfügung gestellten Zugangsendgeräts gelten ergänzend die<br/>
folgenden Regelungen: (...)<br/>
c) Der Kunde verpflichtet sich, für das Zugangsendgerät ausschließlich von dem Kabelnetzbetreiber bereitgestellte Software/Firmware zu verwenden. <e>

</e></QUOTE>

2. Beschäftige dich doch mal mit dem FTEG, z.B.:
<QUOTE><s>

</s>Sie können dem Teilnehmer <U><s></s>Telekommunikationsendeinrichtungen <e></e></U>überlassen, dürfen aber deren Anschluss und Nutzung nicht zwingend vorschreiben.<e>

</e></QUOTE>

3. Dass man seinen Anschluss wegen so "Scherze" auch gerne mal gesperrt bekommt, zeigt dieses Video (einfach mal ansehen, irgendwo wird es gesagt -- kein Bock das jetzt zu suchen):<br/>
<URL url="https://media.ccc.de/v/32c3-7133-beyond_your_cable_modem#video"><LINK_TEXT text="https://media.ccc.de/v/32c3-7133-beyond ... odem#video">https://media.ccc.de/v/32c3-7133-beyond_your_cable_modem#video</LINK_TEXT></URL><br/>
<br/>
4. Wurde das Thema schon gefühlte 100k mal diskutiert.<br/>
<br/>
5. Ist die ganze Aktion eh sinnlos, weil es einfach nicht funktioniert! Und selbst wenn wird (wahrscheinlich) es mit der nächsten Provisionierung und/oder Software-Update wieder überschrieben.</r>

 

[Andreas1969]

Re: Providerbox 6490 manipulieren

<r><QUOTE author="Gizeh775" post_id="374606" time="1496651842" user_id="33798"><s>

</s>
Der DHCP hat einen Pool aus IPs und weiß welche MAC die bekommen dürfen?
<e>

</e></QUOTE>
Das ist ja meine Vermutung und deshalb möchte ich das ausprobieren.<br/>
<br/>
Bei den freien Boxen hat man keine Möglichkeit, man gibt die CM-MAC und Seriennummer an.<br/>
Die freie Fritzbox krallt sich dann die erste IP und für den Bridgemodus steht keine weitere IP mehr zur Verfügung.<br/>
<br/>
Bei den Providerboxen könnte das eventuell anders laufen, da UM ja mehr Informationen über die eigenen Geräte hat.<br/>
Wenn dort die einzige öffentliche IP wirklich an die WAN-MAC gekoppelt sein sollte, könnte der Bridgemodus funktionieren.<br/>
Die Box selber bezieht dann nur noch eine private IP aus dem Pool des CMTS<br/>
Die öffentliche IP holt sich dann der Router über den Bridge-Port.<br/>
<br/>
1. Ich gebe der Providerbox eine andere WAN-MAC<br/>
2. Bridgemodus aktivieren<br/>
3. Dem Router am Bridge-Port die WAN-MAC der Providerbox verpassen.<br/>
<br/>
Den Versuch möchte ich gerne machen.<br/>
Sollte der nicht fruchten, mache ich die Änderungen wieder rückgängig.<br/>
Sollte das aber klappen, bleiben die Änderungen natürlich bestehen.<br/>
Auf der Providerbox brauche ich keine Routerfunktionalität, auch keine Telefonie, die läuft bei mir eh schon auf dem nachgelagerten Router.<br/>
UM hat mir auf der Providerbox nämlich garkeine Telefonnummern mehr eingerichtet, die Box läuft bei mir im Prinzip eh nur noch als Modem.<br/>
Es fehlt mir lediglich noch die öffentliche IP auf meinem eigenen Router,</r>

 

[Gizeh775]

Re: Providerbox 6490 manipulieren

<r><QUOTE><s>

</s>4.2 Für die Nutzung eines vom Kabelnetzbetreiber zur Verfügung gestellten Zugangsendgeräts gelten ergänzend die<br/>
folgenden Regelungen: (...)<br/>
c) Der Kunde verpflichtet sich, für das Zugangsendgerät ausschließlich von dem Kabelnetzbetreiber bereitgestellte Software/Firmware zu verwenden. <e>

</e></QUOTE>

Er benutzt die vom Kabelnetzbetreieber bereitgestellte Software/Firmware.<br/>
Eine Anpassung der Konfiguration egal ob über Webinterface oder halt direkt über die Datei ändert das ja nicht, ansonsten würde dieser Teil der AGB ja auch jede Änderung im Webinterface verbieten.<br/>

<QUOTE author="Andreas1969" post_id="374612" time="1496652820" user_id="31771"><s>

</s>
<QUOTE author="Gizeh775" post_id="374606" time="1496651842" user_id="33798"><s>

</s>
Der DHCP hat einen Pool aus IPs und weiß welche MAC die bekommen dürfen?
<e>

</e></QUOTE>
Das ist ja meine Vermutung und deshalb möchte ich das ausprobieren.<br/>
<br/>
Bei den freien Boxen hat man keine Möglichkeit, man gibt die CM-MAC und Seriennummer an.<br/>
Die freie Fritzbox krallt sich dann die erste IP und für den Bridgemodus steht keine weitere IP mehr zur Verfügung.<br/>
<br/>
Bei den Providerboxen könnte das eventuell anders laufen, da UM ja mehr Informationen über die eigenen Geräte hat.<br/>
Wenn dort die einzige öffentliche IP wirklich an die WAN-MAC gekoppelt sein sollte, könnte der Bridgemodus funktionieren.<br/>
Die Box selber bezieht dann nur noch eine private IP aus dem Pool des CMTS<br/>
Die öffentliche IP holt sich dann der Router über den Bridge-Port.<br/>
<br/>
1. Ich gebe der Providerbox eine andere WAN-MAC<br/>
2. Bridgemodus aktivieren<br/>
3. Dem Router am Bridge-Port die WAN-MAC der Providerbox verpassen.<br/>
<br/>
Den Versuch möchte ich gerne machen.<br/>
Sollte der nicht fruchten, mache ich die Änderungen wieder rückgängig.<br/>
Sollte das aber klappen, bleiben die Änderungen natürlich bestehen.<br/>
Auf der Providerbox brauche ich keine Routerfunktionalität, auch keine Telefonie, die läuft bei mir eh schon auf dem nachgelagerten Router.<br/>
UM hat mir auf der Providerbox nämlich garkeine Telefonnummern mehr eingerichtet, die Box läuft bei mir im Prinzip eh nur noch als Modem.<br/>
Es fehlt mir lediglich noch die öffentliche IP auf meinem eigenen Router,
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

Nein wie bereits so oft hier im Forum getestet geht es auch mit Providerboxen nicht.</r>

 

[Leseratte10]

Re: Providerbox 6490 manipulieren

<t>Bei Betrieb einer Fritzbox als Kabelmodem gilt doch CM-MAC = WAN-MAC, oder nicht? Was soll denn die "WAN-MAC" da noch sein?<br/>
<br/>
CM-MAC ist die MAC-Adresse des DOCSIS-Interfaces, und die sieht das CMTS.</t>

 

[Andreas1969]

Re: Providerbox 6490 manipulieren

<r><QUOTE author="Leseratte10" post_id="374614" time="1496653254" user_id="25173"><s>

</s>
Bei Betrieb einer Fritzbox als Kabelmodem gilt doch CM-MAC = WAN-MAC, oder nicht? Was soll denn die "WAN-MAC" da noch sein?<br/>
<br/>
CM-MAC ist die MAC-Adresse des DOCSIS-Interfaces, und die sieht das CMTS.
<e>

</e></QUOTE>
Ist das wirklich so, dass WAN und CM MAC dasselbe ist?<br/>
Das wäre natürlich doof und somit wäre das Vorhaben nicht realisierbar.</r>

 

[johnripper]

Re: Providerbox 6490 manipulieren

<r><QUOTE author="Gizeh775" post_id="374613" time="1496653158" user_id="33798"><s>

</s>
<QUOTE><s>

</s>4.2 Für die Nutzung eines vom Kabelnetzbetreiber zur Verfügung gestellten Zugangsendgeräts gelten ergänzend die<br/>
folgenden Regelungen: (...)<br/>
c) Der Kunde verpflichtet sich, für das Zugangsendgerät ausschließlich von dem Kabelnetzbetreiber bereitgestellte Software/Firmware zu verwenden. <e>

</e></QUOTE>

Er benutzt die vom Kabelnetzbetreieber bereitgestellte Software/Firmware.<br/>
Eine Anpassung der Konfiguration egal ob über Webinterface oder halt direkt über die Datei ändert das ja nicht, ansonsten würde dieser Teil der AGB ja auch jede Änderung im Webinterface verbieten.
<e>

</e></QUOTE>
Nö. Das ist zudem gesondert geregelt.<br/>
Ansonsten steht es nochmal klar an anderer Stelle, etwas deutlicher:
<QUOTE><s>

</s>4.7 Der Kunde wird die ihm von dem Kabelnetzbetreiber überlassene Hardware pfleglich behandeln und weder ihr<br/>
Gehäuse öffnen noch sie in anderer Weise <U><s></s>manipulieren<e></e></U> noch anders als vereinbart nutzen. <e>

</e></QUOTE>
(Witzigerweise steht dort sogar wirklich manipulieren. -- das sollte jetzt auch der Letzte verstanden haben <E></E><br/>
<br/>
Abgesehen davon: Die Box ist und bleibt Eigentum von UM und damit brauche ich nicht mal AGBs um dem Kunden zu verbieten an dem Teil rumzufummeln. Das ergibt sich schon aus dem BGB.</r>

 

[Andreas1969]

Re: Providerbox 6490 manipulieren

<t>Manipulieren war wohl etwas falsch ausgedrückt. <br/>
Ich möchte lediglich Änderungen vornehmen, die auf der Oberfläche nicht sichtbar (ausgegraut) sind.<br/>
<br/>
Bei den älteren FW Ständen konnte man ja auch noch die MAC ändern. Das ist heute nur ausgegraut.</t>

 

[johnripper]

Re: Providerbox 6490 manipulieren

<r><QUOTE author="Andreas1969" post_id="374617" time="1496653975" user_id="31771"><s>

</s>
Manipulieren war wohl etwas falsch ausgedrückt. <br/>
Ich möchte lediglich Änderungen vornehmen, die auf der Oberfläche nicht sichtbar (ausgegraut) sind.
<e>

</e></QUOTE>
Also möchtest du sie anders als vereinbart nutzen?</r>

 

[Andreas1969]

Also möchtest du sie anders als vereinbart nutzen?

Ja, nämlich als Modem.
Wo steht denn, dass ich das nicht darf?
Es sind doch nur Einstellungen.
Dann dürfte ich die Netzwerkeinstellungen ja auch nicht verändern.

 

[tq1199]

Re: Providerbox 6490 manipulieren

<r><QUOTE author="Leseratte10" post_id="374614" time="1496653254" user_id="25173"><s>

</s>
CM-MAC ist die MAC-Adresse des DOCSIS-Interfaces, und die sieht das CMTS.
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

Im Zuge des "DHCP-ACK" bzw. "BOOTP/DHCP, Reply" der externen IPv4-Adresse via CMTS an die FritzBox, kennt (sieht) das CMTS die "maca" der FritzBox.<br/>
<br/>
Das konnte ich mit z. B.:
<CODE><s>

</s><i>
</i>sudo tcpdump -vvveni eth0 udp portrange 67-68 | grep -i Client-Ethernet-Address
<e>

</e></CODE>
auf dem Gerät am Bridge-Anschluss der FB und den support-Daten der FB, feststellen.</r>

 

[Leseratte10]

Das CMTS sieht die CM-MAC / WAN-MAC.
Der DHCP-Server sieht die MAC-A.

Ist aber eigentlich egal, denn wer eine der beiden kennt, kann die andere berechnen.

 

[johnripper]

Also möchtest du sie anders als vereinbart nutzen?

Ja, nämlich als Modem.
Wo steht denn, dass ich das nicht darf?
Es sind doch nur Einstellungen.
Dann dürfte ich die Netzwerkeinstellungen ja auch nicht verändern.

https://www.unitymediaforum.de/viewtopic.php?p=374616#p374616

Gesendet von meinem SM-G935F mit Tapatalk

 

[Andreas1969]

4.7 Der Kunde wird die ihm von dem Kabelnetzbetreiber überlassene Hardware pfleglich behandeln und weder ihr
Gehäuse öffnen noch sie in anderer Weise manipulierennoch anders als vereinbart nutzen.

- Ich behandle sie pfleglich.
- Ich öffne nicht das Gehäuse
- Ich manipuliere sie nicht, lediglich Einstellungen werden verändert
- Ich nutze sie nicht anders, als vereinbart, ich nutze sie nämlich nur als Zugang zum UM Netz.

 

[johnripper]

- Ich manipuliere sie nicht,

Steht da aber.

- Ich nutze sie nicht anders, als vereinbart

Hast du aber gesagt.

Naja egal. Verschwende deine Zeit und Energie und lass dir ggf. den Zugang von UM sperren. Richtig funktionieren wird es nicht.

Zeitverschwendung. Ich bin hier raus.



Gesendet von meinem SM-G935F mit Tapatalk

 

[Leseratte10]

@Andreas1969 du bist also echt der Meinung, das Exportieren einer Konfigurationsdatei, das manuelle Bearbeiten dieser und das Austricksen der vorgesehenen Sperren (manuelles Neuberechnen der Prüfsumme) beim zurückspielen, um Dinge zu erreichen, die Unitymedia in dem gerät explizit blockiert hat (Die bridge-Seite ist ja unsichtbar im Webinterface) wäre *kein* manipulieren bzw. wäre eine Nutzung wie vereinbart?

Wenn du was übers Webinterface konfigurieren kannst, tu es.
Wenn nicht, ist es eine Manipulation und du nutzt die Box nicht wie vereinbart.

Wenn du basteln willst, kauf dir ne eigene Box.

 

[Andreas1969]

lass dir ggf. den Zugang von UM sperren.

Warum sollten sie das tun?
Im Gegensatz, ich könnte den Anschluss sogar meinerseits fristlos kündigen, da UM sich bei mir nicht an die vertraglichen Leistungen hält.
Die haben meinen Anschluss nämlich total versaut, sodass ich mich zu diesen Mitteln gezwungen sehe.

An meinem Anschluss laufen nur Providerboxen und die freien Fritzboxen. Andere Geräte funktionieren nicht fehlerfrei.
Auf der Providerbox stellen sie mir nur den Internetzugang zur Verfügung. Die Telefonie (6 UM Rufnummern) funktioniert auf der Providerbox nicht.
UM kann diese Probleme nicht lösen.
Ich bin sogar gezwungen, einen eigenen Router hinter der Providerbox zu betreiben, um die Telefonie zu realisieren.

 

[Leseratte10]

Punkt 1, womit versaut UM dir deinen Anschluss?
Punkt 2, was kann UM dafür wenn kein Hersteller Modems anbietet? 6490 läuft, freies Hitron-Modem läuft. Was kann UM dafür dass das in Deutschland nicht verkauft wird?

Wenn UM die Telefonie nicht ans laufen kriegt, dann kündige halt fristlos und geh zu nem anderen Anbieter.
Aber bei "Selbstjustiz", indem du gegen die AGB verstößt und UMs Eigentum manipulierst (ja, das was du vor hast ist eine Manipulation, sonst ginge es übers normale Webinterface) darfst du dich nicht wundern, wenn dein Anschluss gesperrt wird.

 

[Andreas1969]

womit versaut UM dir deinen Anschluss?

Das würde zu weit führen, das zu erläutern.
Es gibt hier im Forum aber 3 Mitglieder, die das bestätigen können.

Einer ist sogar UM-Mitarbeiter,
ein Anderer Moderator

 

[MichaelBre]

Das würde zu weit führen, das zu erläutern.
Es gibt hier im Forum aber 3 Mitglieder, die das bestätigen können.

Amen :winken:

 

[Andreas1969]

Amen

Danke Michael.

Das »Amen« ist ein hebräischer Ausruf, der Bestätigung ausdrückt. Zu übersetzen wäre es, wenn es auf eine Behauptung folgt mit: »So ist es« oder »Ja, das steht fest

 

[addicted]

Re: Providerbox 6490 manipulieren

<r><QUOTE author="Andreas1969" post_id="374612" time="1496652820" user_id="31771"><s>

</s>
Wenn dort die einzige öffentliche IP wirklich an die WAN-MAC gekoppelt sein sollte, könnte der Bridgemodus funktionieren.<br/>
Die Box selber bezieht dann nur noch eine private IP aus dem Pool des CMTS<br/>
Die öffentliche IP holt sich dann der Router über den Bridge-Port.<br/>
<br/>
1. Ich gebe der Providerbox eine andere WAN-MAC<br/>
2. Bridgemodus aktivieren<br/>
3. Dem Router am Bridge-Port die WAN-MAC der Providerbox verpassen.
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

Ich glaube nicht, dass das gehen würde.<br/>
<br/>
Meinen Beobachtungen nach gibt es im Router drei relevante Interfaces/MACs:<br/>
- Das Kabelmodem. Auf diesem Interface gibt es imho immer eine RFC1918 Adresse.<br/>
- Das LAN. Diese MAC wird vom Router nur LAN-seitig genutzt.<br/>
- MTA/eRouter: Das ist der spannende Teil, falls er existiert.<br/>
<br/>
Die CM Mac wird für die Docsis Auth benötigt, und über das CM-Interface versorgt sich das Modem auch mit der Zeit und dem Configfile.<br/>
<br/>
Die MAC auf dem MTA/eRouter Interface ist ungleich der CM Mac, aber idR einfach fortlaufend die nächste. Die wird von UM aber imho nicht geprüft, denn es gibt auch Geräte, die dieses Interface nicht haben oder deaktivieren können.<br/>
<br/>
Das Problem ist, dass dieses Interface bei der Begrenzung der Endgeräte durch den CM-Teil mitgezählt wird. Steht die Grenze also auf "1", wie bei den meisten aktuellen Tarifen, dann blockiert ein Gerät mit aktivem MTA/eRouter das Kabelmodem mit seiner MAC.<br/>
Es ist nicht so, dass UM's DHCP Server irgendwas prüft und dann den Request ablehnt. Stattdessen kommt der DHCP Request eines nachgelagerten Routers überhaupt nicht bei UM an, weil er vom CM bereits geblockt wird.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
Daher müsste man meinem Verständnis nach dem Gerät beibringen, den MTA/eRouter deaktiviert zu lassen und LAN und CM zu bridgen. Dann würde es laufen wie ein Modem. Soweit ich weiß gibt UM in der Docsis Config aber mit, ob der Teil benötigt wird oder nicht. Daher schaltet das Gerät ihn dann ggf. einfach ein, auch wenn eine mögliche Konfiguration des Benutzers ihn nicht aktiviert hätte.<br/>
<br/>
Ich sehe nicht, wie man das über den Ex-/Import der Fritzbox anders hinbekommen sollte, völlig egal ob Providerbox oder selbstgekauft.<br/>
Es würde mich aber wahnsinnig interessieren, wie die das bei Businesskunden mit statischer IP machen. Aber AVM gibt sich da sehr verschlossen, mir wurde ja erklärt es gäbe überhaupt keinen Bidge Modus für die Fritzboxen.</r>

 

[Andreas1969]

Ich sehe nicht, wie man das über den Ex-/Import der Fritzbox anders hinbekommen sollte, völlig egal ob Providerbox oder selbstgekauft.

Vielleicht geht es aber noch einfacher :kratz:
Da ich in der Box absolut Null Routerfunktionalität benötige (Telefonie geht ja über die Box auch nicht), könnte man ja in den IPV4 Einstellungen
unter den Zugangsdaten das beziehen der öffentlichen IP über DHCP deaktivieren und dort irgendeine unsinnige statische IP einstellen.
Dann sollte der Routerteil doch die einzige IP4 nicht mehr vom CMTS beziehen und mit etwas Glück wird dann die öffentliche IP über
den Bridge Port zur Verfügung gestellt. Hat das schon mal jemand probiert?
Um das zu realisieren müsste ich dann nur über den FBeditor in der WEB-GUI den Bereich für die Bridge und den Bereich für Zugangsdaten IPV4 sichtbar machen.

Momentan habe ich aber noch das Problem, daß die Provider-Fritzbox 6490 die Änderungen nicht schluckt (weder Online, noch über manuellen EXPORT/IMPORT)
Wenn ich die Datei manuell importiere, kommt die Fehlermeldung "Dies ist keine gültige Sicherungsdatei"
Der FB Editor ist eigentlich die letzte Version (7.21) und der HASH am Ende wird durch den FBeditor beim Speichern auch neu berechnet.
Kann es wohl sein, das der FBeditor den HASH falsch berechnet :kratz:

 

[Andreas1969]

Anscheinend war mit dem FBeditor was faul.
Habe den jetzt nochmals von einer anderen Quelle runtergeladen.
Nun werden die Änderungen übernommen.
Der Bridge Modus ist jetzt in der Oberfläche sichtbar.
Da kann ich nun in den nächsten Tagen mal etwas rum experimentieren. :smile:

 

[addicted]

Könnte reichen, wenn man die WAN Einstellungen ändert. Ich habe aber meine Zweifel.